In light of whatever freaking out is done by either side here, I think I'll be sitting both contests out. Even with embelishing, I can see the CAW SS being started as a challenge/response to this, especially with the dates for everything so close...

Too bad, I was looking forward to entering my first contest here.

 

Here's the 'Big Deal'

ELP stated there would be NO competition until after the summer. Only when this KAW gained momentum did he decide to throw a spanner in the works!

There are other things I want to say on this matter which MANY other KAW entrants will know about but the rules of the site prevent me from expanding upon.

I personally believe that ELP announced the CAW SS for no other reason than to try and derail the KAW.

 

Posting this in both related threads.

Since I'm on horse's ignore list, I hope someone will convey this to him. I've been made one of the whipping boys, apparently, so I might as well speak my mind.

The KAW, whatever motivations were behind it, was flawed by restricting eligibility. The stated reasons for the competition were good, but by refusing the opportunity to enter to writers who were lucky enough to win a CAW, it seemed as though KAW was being marketed as, to steal someone's phrasing, a "maiden's race". What does that really mean? "Here's a chance to have a statistically better chance of winning, since there might be fewer players"? Does it mean, "Don't want to wait? Write for me." Or does it mean, "I, as KAW creator, the champion of the common man, am going reverse-elitist and creating a junior level of competition"?

Either way, I felt the KAW restriction was wrong, and for that reason did not support it. I feel the all-inclusive nature of the CAW SS creates a real writing Challenge, which is what the CAW series originally was -- something open to everyone, even real-world published authors. ejls started the custom of the host not entering after she won her own CAW. That was to encourage others to enter. It was never a rule; it was never a restriction. If writing is what the CAW is about, the fewer restriction and hence more entries, the better. Horse is right. Some people win a lot. Hell, he's won two to my one-and-a-half.

Now, the sudden cancellation of the KAW is wrong, too. New and veteran writers expressed an interest in it and apparently started their stories. Horse built these people up and then let them down. In my opinion, not cool. One has to wonder if there ever was real intent to see the KAW through. Was this really supposed to be an opportunity for people to write, or was it a way to rile everyone up? Sure, since there was no theme whatsoever, potential KAW entrants can finish and post their stories on their own, but that's not the point. The point is creating something and then smashing it in a fit of rage.

The clique ahorsewithnoname refers to in his "shutting down the KAW" post could be considered to include all past CAW winners. Like horse himself.

There is no reason for a war.

 

Abso-fucking-lutely!!!!

 

I am bringing this forward from the last page. Would the rest of you truly deny writers the opportunity to take part in a 1000 word challenge?

 

I dont think anybody disagrees except for the fact that it was launched with malice.

Does anybody really want those feelings on the site?

 

I don't see why anyone should be denied the opportunity to enter anything. That was my main objection to the KAW concept. That, and, at least to me, it seemed like a slap in the face, not to former CAW winner so much as to people who have not won.

That's why I used the term "reverse-elitist". It's discriminatory, and the idea that ejls, or ELP, or any other winner entering ruins everyone's chances is silly. Every CAW winner has lost far more times than they're won. I wouldn't be surprised if I have among the highest number of losing CAW entries on the board.

This KAW thing was divisive from the start. Now, it's been made to look like some political power struggle with horse's temper tantrum. I have to ask again if that was the whole idea.

 

Excellent question. Maybe you should ask the one who pulled the kontest you were writing for.

 

I wish to say one last thing on this matter -

Both competitions/challenges/kompetitions/khallenges, should go ahead but I really do think the Horse was completely and utterly sincere about the KAW and it has been made into a tit-for-tat by ELP....as per usual.

There was no mention of a 16.5 or ss as he's calling it until he felt threatened by Horses' KAW, which I think is an ingenious play on the original. As we all read on the caw 16 thread ''there will be no caw until September'' or something to that effect, then BOOM, SS appears right after Horse decided to make all us writers happy with a little quirk in our regular caw routine.

Also would like to say thanks to Horse for trying to break out of the box and shake things up a little too bad some of the other kids do not play well with others and spit their dummies out and throw their toys out of the prams.

I am done giving this fuel to add to the fire.

 

With respect WSF, who I consider one of my closest friends on here, you fail to comment on the 'divisive' decision of ELP to put up a contest in direct 'kompetition' to KAW after he stated publicly that there would be no competition over the summer.

CAW SS was set up with spite only

On a side note, I can understand your point on the 'no winners' rule, but that is not the issue here, sorry x

 

Well said Sybil !!

.

 

I would not deny anyone a chance to enter any contest. Hell why don't we all start one that way we each get one entry and everyone gets to win one.

The point is, the CAW SS was set in place just to try and get at Horse. This was not about starting a contest it was about trying to hurt someone. The OP for the CAW SS does not give a damn about a contest that a week ago he was saying he would no longer be writing in. All he cares about is that he got outshone and his little world where he was the winner and in charge was threatened.

This has truly soured me on ever competing in a CAW again. If this is the way winners are going to start acting. I sure as hell wouldn't want to risk being one.

 

"Deny writers the opportunity" - no.
Question the motive for the SS challenge's timing, limits, and rewards - most definitely, yes.

The SS was initiated well after the informal comp was set forth and started to receive support from writers established in this community.
The limit of 1000 words is FALSE ENCOURAGEMENT as many writers are not aware of just how limiting that CAP is. I have said it there and will say it here - one of my criteria for judging a story in these comps is completeness.

• If a story is chap 1 then it will be automatically excluded from my short list.
• If a story FEELS like chap 1 then it ends up excluded from my short list.
• If there are sufficient deficiencies in resolution, a story gets excluded from my short list.
• Vignettes or cut-scenes have to be EXTREMELY well done to avoid being seen as incomplete.

IMO - restricting anyone from competing in the SS comp is not the point.
The point is that the SS comp appears to have been created in DIRECT competition with this -

WITH THE INTENT TO DESTROY THE PARTICIPATION IN THE KAW.
​

I see sour grapes even without any mention of PMs

 

As someone new I didn't see any malice, especially since by his own rules the host was excluded (much like the winner of the previous CAW normally is?)

From how I understood it, it was declared that there'd be no official CAW until September. Also from how I understood within days of joining the site ELP declared himself retired from CAW.

From a newbie it looks like someone tried creating just a fun little unofficial contest, allowing newbies and those who aren't regular winners to participate, and one of the old-guard as it were deciding that was unacceptable.

 

Nail hit on head! Except 'Old Guard' should read 'Baby who spat out dummy'

 

I stated that CAW SS would be open to all and that people could enter, if they wanted, even if they had an entry in other forum activities. Both challenges could have existed together. I wasn't the one who got angry and tossed his toys out of the pram. So why attack me?

 

WAIT JUST A COTTON-PICKIN'-MINUTE!

Is the the purpose of a CAW to write and the prize be the satisfaction of winning the hearts and minds of your fellow writer NOT to win an actual prize?

So why has ELP suddenly put up a prize for the winner?

Is it to draw people away from the KAW because I am almost 99% certain that in every CAW thread there is a mention of no prize but the satisfaction of a writing winning story.

Hmm....

The usual .5 caws' don't have the luxury of hosting the next CAW, it is usually for fun. So why the change?? Me thinks foul afoot!

 

No, every CAW winner gets the "prize" of hosting the next CAW.

 

Questions for ELP

1. Did you approve of KAW?

2. Did you actively try to discourage anyone from entering?

 

as an example of the length of story being allowed:
check the following story: Real incident - an evening in a park
According to MSWorks, there are 267 words in that story. Now think of limiting yourself to less than 4 times that length and getting a complete story out - I see vignettes and cut scenes being the main course and I do not expect to see ANY good writing being submitted. Please note that I would be HAPPY to be proven wrong.